“The Media Service for Integration is as relevant today as it was when it was founded.”

Ten years ago, the Media Service for Integration (MDI) was founded, which is certainly a reason to celebrate. On the other hand, isn’t it telling that this service is still needed in 2022? Shouldn’t Germany be much further along when it comes to integration?

Ferda Ataman: One of the Media Service’s goals is undoubtedly to make itself redundant at some point, at least as a media service focused on an immigration society. We have seen significant progress in that direction, but we are not there yet. In fact, I would argue that ten years after its founding, the Media Service is at least as important as it was back then.

Mehmet Ata: The Media Service remains a valuable institution because it offers a clear-headed perspective on issues related to our immigration society. We provide facts and scientific evidence. In such an emotionally charged field, it is crucial to establish a solid, data-driven foundation for public debate.

Ms. Ataman, you have been involved with MDI from the very beginning. How did it come about?

Ferda Ataman: As part of Germany’s National Integration Plan, there was a working group dedicated to media issues. Everyone agreed that media organizations needed to become more diverse, yet too few people with migrant backgrounds were applying for jobs in the sector. At the same time, many discussions about migration were taking place without the voices of migrants themselves being included. And researchers pointed out that public debates on migration and integration were often driven more by assumptions than by facts.

How important is it for the Media Service to highlight opportunities and solutions?

Mehmet Ata: Our primary goal is to bring scientific evidence into public debates, foster a more fact-based discussion, and provide reliable data and insights. If people with migrant backgrounds are less likely to get vaccinated, then that is a fact. Others may interpret or comment on it, but our role is to provide the scientific foundation for the discussion. That was one of the problems with the Sarrazin debate: many of his claims were not backed by data. He simply made assertions about certain issues, something he later acknowledged himself.

Ferda Ataman: A fact-based perspective can provide the foundation for more solution-oriented approaches. Education researchers, for example, have long argued that segregated schooling is not an effective way to teach German to children who arrive without sufficient language skills. Yet even after 2015, many children remained in welcome classes for too long. Reliable data shows that these students learn German more quickly when they are integrated into mainstream classrooms. Policymakers and public administrators should take such findings into account.

What has improved over the past ten years?

Mehmet Ata: The fact that migration and integration are now recognised as major societal issues is a success in itself. Another positive development is that people affected by racism are heard far more often than they were a decade ago. Newsrooms have developed greater expertise, and society as a whole has become more aware of these issues, particularly younger generations.

Ferda Ataman: In the past, there were only a handful of scholars regularly consulted on migration and integration issues, such as Klaus Bade. Today, journalists have access to a much broader network of experts covering education, newly arrived migrants, Eastern Europe, migration history, and many other related topics. This professional expertise has greatly enriched public discourse. When it comes to racism, however, there is still room for improvement. While people directly affected are now frequently given a voice, scientific perspectives and robust data remain underrepresented. For example, the Black Lives Matter debate in 2020 continued for months without drawing significantly on German racism research.

What challenges do you see ahead? And how can the Media Service contribute to addressing them?

Mehmet Ata: It is important to me that we continue to evolve, not least because expectations of our work are changing. That is why I found our collaboration with Bielefeld University on online hate speech against journalists particularly valuable. We were involved not only in analysing the survey results but also in developing the research design from the outset. In 2021, we also worked with TU Dortmund University to create an e-learning platform on our core topics. Today, our services are increasingly used not only by media professionals, but also by public administration, academia, policymakers, and civil society organisations. There is simply no other independent institution that brings together such a comprehensive body of facts, data, and research on these issues.

Ferda Ataman: What is striking is how quickly the framework of these debates can shift. When we started in 2012, much of the discussion centred on Germany as a country of emigration and migration from within Europe. Then, in 2015, public attention turned almost overnight to refugees from Syria and Africa. Today, labour shortages are a key concern. The challenges keep changing. This shows why the Media Service must continue to evolve, but also why it remains indispensable. Migration and integration are not exceptional situations that policymakers can address once and then consider resolved. Germany has always been, and continues to be, a country shaped by immigration in all its complexity. That is why these issues will not disappear.

Do you feel that politicians and civil society fully recognise this reality?

Mehmet Ata: It would be beneficial if different groups in society listened to one another more closely. Much of the current discussion around racism has emerged from civil society over the past two or three years, driven by people who have experienced racism themselves. These issues now receive greater attention from policymakers and the media. Yet there is still considerable value in listening more carefully to those directly affected. They are experts in their own right because racism has a direct and lasting impact on their lives.
Ferda Ataman: It helps when policymakers incorporate a wider range of perspectives and when political institutions themselves become more diverse. This is true not only in the context of anti-racism but also in relation to other forms of discrimination. At present, many people equate diversity and anti-discrimination with numerical representation, for example ensuring that every fourth person has a migrant background. But diversity matters above all because people bring different experiences, perspectives, and ways of seeing the world.

That sounds as though you have very specific ideas in mind.

Ferda Ataman: Especially in light of my new role, I would like to see anti-discrimination understood in the broad sense that it requires. This includes age discrimination, disability, gender, sexual identity, religion, and belief systems. These dimensions also apply to migrants and their descendants. They are young and old, may live with disabilities, and have diverse sexual identities. I would welcome a more intersectional approach from the Media Service.

Mehmet Ata: In some respects, we are already moving in that direction. We also identify issues that are highly relevant to society but where little or no research exists. In those cases, we actively help initiate new areas of inquiry.